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CLASSIC Motorsports. Right?

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April 21, 2008 9:38 p.m. Apis Mellifera

Is the GRM side going to get a Reader's Rides section like CM? The layout seems popular, but possibly the "classic" stipulation is being overlooked since there are non-classic cars there.
April 21, 2008 9:46 p.m. Bret

I don't there's a soul here that wouldn't pass up a 1935 Bentley LeMans Tourer if it was given to us. But perhaps "Modern Classic" is a better vernacular.
April 21, 2008 9:59 p.m. Apis Mellifera

My point was that the 928, Supra and '94 Mustang don't fit with MGBs and E-types. Those three are non-classics by most accounts and certainly in terms of the magazine's direction. Your Hertz post would probably get more attention on the GRM side as well since it's not a "classic" either.

Just curious if a GRM RR makeover is one of the changes alluded to in recent times.
April 21, 2008 10:21 p.m. Bret

Wow? So serious...

My point referencing the Bentley – was that I'm quite sure that there are some car snobs out there that would think that any vehicle made after 1950 shouldn’t be considered a classic.

So where do you draw the line. A 58 MGA or an 88 Land Rover? ;)
April 21, 2008 11:52 p.m. Keith

It's an 88" Land Rover, not a 1988 Land Rover :) Off-roading is a motorsport, and one that's been around since motoring was invented.

And of course, we get into what a classic is. Just wait until someone posts a Miata, then we'll really get the discussion going!
April 22, 2008 1:29 a.m. Bret

Actually if'n ya look at Apis's bio you'll see he lists a "72 Land Rover 88" along with the following: 58 MGA Coupe 59 AH Sprite <-Current project 60 AH Sprite 71 BMW R60 71 Triumph Bonneville 72 MG Midget 72 Land Rover 88 73 MG Midget 74 MGB GT"

My mistake.

But I digress – I’m just trying to figure out where he’s coming from that’s all. I mean is he really suggesting that unless you own E-Types and MGBs you shouldn’t be posting here?

If that’s what he’s saying – it’s reminiscent of all of the bemoaning that went on by a number of folks who got all upset when British Car first became Classic Motorsports.

It has to be said that even I had my reservations at the change but I am extremely happy with the new format. I mean I love my MGB but just how many articles can you write about them before it starts to become somewhat stale.
April 22, 2008 6:39 a.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

That's why there's ratings, and comments, and all the other stuff. Not interested in newer stuff, or italian stuff, or whatever? Skip it, go to the ones you like and vote and comment on them.
April 22, 2008 8:44 a.m. Burke Bell

Well put Tim! The diversity of this site is what drew me to it. I am a member of a Land Rover site and a Porsche site for many years. I love them both, but they each get so model specific and sometimes bash other makes. I like learning about other's "loves", and I have yet to see a vehicle on this site that I wouldn't like to get behind the wheel of.
April 22, 2008 8:48 a.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

I'm such a car slut that if it's remotely interesting at some point I've probably lusted over one. One day I want an older 911, the next day I want a Volvo 122, the day after I want an MG 1100, and then I decide I really should get a Matra Djet before I die. They're all cool, just different. Each has strengths and weaknesses. On the reader rides section, if one doesn't get the pulse racing it, I just move on to one that does and vote for it.
April 22, 2008 8:51 a.m. Apis Mellifera

I can't really summarize my point any better than I did already:

"My point was that the 928, Supra and '94 Mustang don't fit with MGBs and E-types. Those three are non-classics by most accounts and certainly in terms of the magazine's direction."-Me

Nothing wrong with those cars I mention, I actually really like specifically those makes and models; one in particular...

They just aren't of the same era, style, or dare I say, spirit of older cars (Brit, Jap, Euro...whatever) and they align more with GRM. It would be like having a helicopter in a place for airplanes. So, again, will GRM get a similar RR section? Just curious, not trying to hurt anyone's feelings.

And yes my Rover is an 88 (reference to wheelbase), but it was built in 1973.
April 22, 2008 9:07 a.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

I probably shouldn't let the cat out of the bag, but yes, GRM will be getting a similar reader rides section. It has the section on the board, but I think the setup over here is better.

As for whether they fit in over here... I'll leave that up to the community to decide with their votes, comments and views.
April 22, 2008 9:18 a.m. KaptKaos

Apis - nice 928! And you are really tall.

Here is the question: "What is a classic car?"
April 22, 2008 9:28 a.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

Here is the question: "What is a classic car?"

Far as I'm concerned, it's whatever I say it is, but that definition probably doesn't work for other people.
April 22, 2008 9:58 a.m. Apis Mellifera

Hey that's my definition too!
April 22, 2008 9:58 a.m. wetpossum

I would argue in favor of labeling those cars as classics. When my father restored his Porsche 356, a full bare-metal restoration, it was only 11 years old.

Plus, a Supra is most definitely in the same spirit as an E-type and will most certainly become a collectible classic in the near future. Straight-6, Gobs of torque, able to hang with Ferrari's and 911's for a fraction of the price...
April 22, 2008 10:06 a.m. KaptKaos

I think a classic car has keys, but I digress.

Seriously, is classic a reflection of time or status? Surely the last generation Supra is an amazing car. If it were not so good a performer, would it be a "classic" so soon? Is a 95 Corolla a classic? How long did it take the '81 Celica Supra to become a classic? It wasn't a very good car.
April 22, 2008 10:11 a.m. rconlon

Here is the question: "What is a classic car?"

Here is the answer from Ron's bartender: "Whatever."

Cheers Ron
April 22, 2008 10:52 a.m. Bret

Ok Apis help me out here will ya?

Point out the Classic in this picture?

BTW Tim - I've said it before & I'll say it again, I really liked the "Underrated Classics" article in the May of 2006 issue. That had a Rubber Bumper MGB, A TR7, Chevrolet Corvair, BMW 320i, Maserati Biturbo and of all things (GASP!?!?) a Porsche 928.
April 22, 2008 11:09 a.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

Funny you should mention it, Bret... we just posted that one online: http://classicmotorsports.net/articles/underrated-classics/
April 22, 2008 11:18 a.m. Bret

Sweet! Thanks Tim, I'm sure many will enjoy re-reading it.

My copy has a place of honor in my " Porcelain Thrown Reading Room".... ;)
April 22, 2008 12:03 p.m. Karl La Follette

I was wondering if my 1960 ford 850 fire truck fits in ? http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/racetearoffs/redbull23080.jpg

I bought it with my 1960 Willys M-170 from the Crystal River Fire Dept .
April 22, 2008 12:06 p.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

Karl, why don't you post 'em up and see what folks think?
April 22, 2008 2:44 p.m. Apis Mellifera

No Bret, I will not point to the classic, although it is clear to me. It’s simply a trap.

I can’t tell if you’re just being argumentative or whether you’re insulted by the suggestion that your 928 isn’t a “classic” in relation to CM or whether you really are missing my point. For that reason, I’ll try once more to make my point (my question has already been answered, BTW). One thing I will say before beating the horse again is that for some reason many 928 owners seem to have a chip on their collective sholder. I’ve always liked what I liked and didn’t worry about what others say. That might explain why I’m not a member of any make-specific car clubs. I love the S4 and am saddened that most 928 were automatics. I like the 928 better than just about every other Porsche out there. People with 911s think I’m an idiot, but what do I care. 928s are related by name only and don’t belong with 911s anyway. That said, at least I don’t own a 914. The crap those guys take…

Moving on, consider that this forum used to be a folder, along with the remaining GRM folder, under the GRM umbrella, if you will. The classic folder was morphed into this forum. Bearing that in mind, where would these modern cars fit? In the classic folder with MGBs, old Datsuns, etc, or the GRM folder, with cars of similar vintage? You seem to want to inject an element of snobbery into what I was asking: “Is the GRM side going to get a Reader's Rides section like CM?” I think the CM RR section if far superior to the current GM RR section and its clear people want to show off their cars. I have other cars, but I won’t post them in the classic section because they don’t belong there. They do not fit with the direction of CM magazine or forum. They do, however, align with GRM magazine and forum.

What defines a classic is irrelevant; that’s why I put it in quotations. I have my own opinions, ie date of manufacture, era of manufacture, and spirit. I personally would call those three cars Modern Classics. Like the 3rd gen RX7, the 928 and Supra could easily pass as a current design. I also have a love of 5 liter SN95 Mustangs. None of them, however, mesh with antiquated designs found in most British cars. Because I never owned an old one, I can’t speak of marginal Jap and Euro designs other than to say that valve adjustment procedure on a Fiat is downright stupid.

Kapt: It was an automatic.

I'm 6'3" and my wife is 6'2". In college, we commuted in my MG Midget!
April 22, 2008 3:07 p.m. Apis Mellifera

BTW, right now there's a '77 Celica in the GRM RR section that clearly doesn't belong there.
April 22, 2008 3:22 p.m. Keith

The 928 is an interesting case. It was introduced in 1978. At that time, you could still buy an MGB in the US. But nobody's going to argue against the B as a classic, while a 928 from the same year is not. Yes, I know the B was an antique design already by this point (dodging the slings and arrows) while the 928 was anything but, but if it's just date of manufacture...

I feel like putting my Locost (it's a replica of a classic Lotus, does that count?) and a Miata up, just to see the response. After all, if a 1980 MGB was a classic in 1994, then my 1994 Miata is a classic in 2008 - right?